Inhabited Interlace

Are you talking about the Epiphany (which is what the dictionary says) or about the Baptism of Our Lord which seems to be what your pic is showing? I simply cannot every imagine our Churches reconciling. (Just kidding as you know).

Did you get to the doctor yet? I certainly hope so.

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And don't forget, for Old Calendar folks, today is the Eve of the Nativity...

An epiphany is a revelation - ta-dah! The Epiphany was the revelation of the Messiah...
Theophany, which does indeed celebrate the Baptism, goes further. It is the revelation of the Trinity, which we see first at the Baptism - Christ in the flesh, The Holy Spirit descending, and God the Father's voice from the heavens.

I'm sure we can get back together as soon as that guy in Rome quits spending all y'all's money on red shoes, heh heh heh......

Nope, no Dr. The VA is still patiently waiting for me to drop dead.
Have been feeling fairly good, though, since the new regimen settled in,
so at least (at the moment) I'm not waiting in abject misery...

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If you would just name things properly...Theophany? I had to look it up. Okay, it's the Ephipany. "An epiphany is a revelation - ta-dah! The Epiphany was the revelation ofthe Messiah..." Slight correction: The Epiphany was the revelation of Christ to the world.

Eve of the Nativity. Just like you folks to have Christ baptized before he was even born. That's what happens when there is a Schism :) That's okay; if there ever is a reconciliation there will be plenty of good RC folks to catechize you ... and I'm one of them.

If our Churches ever reconcile, it is going to be so confusing that Christ will probably leave both Churches and start a new Church. We can't even agree on the names of Christmas and Easter. (Joking as you know).

I hope you get the paperwork straightened out soon. The VA is going to run you in circles as long of they can. It isn't right!

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do note I said AN ephiphany, not THE...
But Old Calendarists, who will celebrate the Nativity tomorrow (today for all your buds in Russia!) will not celebrate Theophany (which translates to "revelation of God")until the 19th - gotta have THEIR 12 days of Christmas. So there.
My church is New Calendar, so yesterday was the 12th Day. Really, I don't see WHAT is so hard to understand... hee hee hee

As for names, we understand perfectly Christ's Mass - THAT makes sense. But why in the world choose to call the greatest Feast of Christendom after a pagan goddess in whose name children used to burned.... see, now that one does NOT make sense, except to the "Oh it's all just based on an ancient pagan festival anyway" people. Heh. You can tell that, while faith comes from God, religion was invented by fallible mankind...

And yep, I'm not really counting on much out of the VA, though a diagnosis would be good so I can get disability, whatever, when the necessity comes along, and maybe some meds for whatever ELSE may be wrong with me. I fully expect to walk into an appointment (if I ever get one) in reasonable health, and come out with 15 deadly diseases! ;-)

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Note my userpic and be silent :)

Since you are so high and mighty about naming Christmas after a pagan goddess, etc., please put this in your smipe and poke it: Both Catholics and Orthodox use incense (or at least we once agreed on that point). Did you know that Christians got the idea of using incense from the pagans in the Old Testament (that being allllll those books before the New Testament).

My priest said that the Orthodox use more incense in one liturgy than Roman Catholics use throughout the entire year. I recall you told me that if someone opens the door during the liturgy that incense rolls out like the church is on fire.


You're going to have to get to a doctor with or without the VA. Don't you have TriCare or any form of health insurance? I'm worried about you :(

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oopsie, my dear, hoit by your own petard - behold thine own userpic! "Easter" is the name under discussion -
From Webster's Unabridged -(ME,ester or aester; AS eastre, eastran) - a paschal feast, originally a pagan festival in honor of the Goddess of spring, Eastre, held in April.

And yup, we "cense". But not following pagans - the Church's worship grew out of the Temple worship that was familiar to the Apostles.
(I'm just happy when Father stays away from the incense that smells like burning soap....)

And yep, got Tricare. Got money for the co-pay? Nope. And still paying for the eye surgery 2 years ago, and now a $5000 dental bill, so
anything new has gotta be free or it's gotta wait.
Besides, as long as no Dr gets ahold of me, I can consider myself FAIRLY healthy, except for the strongly suspected holey brain.

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Tut, tut, a slight correction my dear. We were talking about THE Ephiphany which you seem to combine with the Baptism of Our Lord. *really*

My poor misguided friend: incense was used in the Old Testament by the pagans. You have put your foot into yo mouth. The first Christians used incense and it has carried over to present times. OUR altar candles go back to the days when Christians were persecuted and had a 'primitive' mass or liturgy in the catacombs. The Romans were superstitious and thought Christians were crazy to go into the catacombs. To have light they used candles for 'mass'. Where do you get your candles from if not from ancient Christian tradition ... from Yankee Candle? Hummm?

On a more personal note: You had to have the dental work but that's a horrible bill! I was unaware you had eye surgery too.

I will remember you in my prayers. As for insurance, you can't live without it and you can't afford to have it almost.

But like you say, you go to the doctor and he finds more things wrong. Like, what else can go wrong?

Edited at 2009-01-07 05:50 am (UTC)

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Nope, nothing combined, just completed. The Wise Men come before, for us - that Gospel was a couple of weeks ago. Theophany is the revelation of God in fullness - the Trinity, which we never saw before that time.

And of COURSE non-monotheistic people used incense before the Jews - they were AROUND before the Jews! Don't play Silly Jesuits, now...
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On the thread of "traditions", here's a really kewl photostream on Flickr -

http://www.flickr.com/photos/directionstoorthodoxy/

You might enjoy looking through them. Many beautiful churches, many eastern traditions, even some pics of Bennie!

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I might remind you that your Church was initially part of that early 2000 years of holy tradition and when the Schism came around you stole all the good stuff from the mass.

As for the incense, I'm glad you found Leviticus 2: -Now if a soul should offer a gift for a grain offering to the Lord, his gift shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil on it, and put frankincense on it. He shall take it to Aaron's sons, the priests, one of whom shall take from it his handful of fine flour and oil with all the frankincense. Then the priest shall put it on the altar as a memorial,a sacrifice for a sweet aroma to the Lord. The incense can still be purchased from the Middle East where it grows very well and it is in the form of reisin of various small broken bits. Our Church uses that kind -- no powders or sticks. What I'm getting at is the incense our Churches use is likely the same and has to be burned on little half-dollar size self-lighting charcoal cakes. I have some but only burn it outdoors. But as to the passage from Leviticus, mixing it with flour and oil confuses me. I'm not sure if this would burn or what. I'll give it a try as per the passage.

As for incense used in church, the one I absolutely hate has a rose scent mixed in. I prefer the monastery blend of Frankincense and Myrrh. That's what I buy in sticks when I can find it on eBay.

I've had fun teasing you tonight -- you know I wouldn't offend any of my Orthodox friends; I'm just pulling your chain.

BTW, I'd buy a pair of those little red shoes you talk about but the big sellers right now are at the online Obama clothing store. The color is Navy blue t-shirts with red, white and blue appliques. Tonight they were advertising on the news that there are going to be Obama tennis shoes like he wears and has his logo on them :) You know, that guy has made a fortune off clothing ... trust me, I've got 3 shirts and a very soft fleece jacket like he wore when campaigning.

I'm off to bed now and I will keep you in my prayers. God bless+

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Yes indeed, we were all together in one big happy Holy Catholic And Orthodox Church, till that guy in Rome and got all uppity and stuff...

Yep, we have the same kind of incense - in fact, we're burning our way happily through a nice batch straight-from-the-source one of our parishioners brought back from a trip to Ephesus and Jerusalem. I like the rose stuff (though there was one batch a couple of years ago that Was Not Nice) and the frankincense and myrrh. Not sure what the soap-smelling one is, but it's icky.

If you're gonna try burning flour/oil/incense, be careful - burning flour can pop all over the place and set fire to your house if you're not careful! (the Hebrews did their burnt offerings outside and at a nice stone temple, as I recall...) Let me know how it goes - I keep thinking the flour must STINK.

And trust me, you can't possibly come up with weirder things to tease about than my PresbyMethaBaptist mother does!

Don't know if you can AFFORD those red shoes - I hear they're several thousand dollars a pair!

Good night and sweet dreams - now to get back to the work I SHOULD have been doing all evening!

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No again, dear. It is one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church. You're more than welcome to come join us and throw off the Schism. :)

As for the red shoes, I'll watch eBay and see what I can find as Vatican cast-offs.

I had a thought: since they talked about flour, a common kitchen commodity I thought they were also talking about cooking oil. On second thought I now believe it might be flour and lamp oil to burn the frankincense reisen.

And yes, definitely outdoors. I know pepper pops on an electric stove burner and I'm sure flour would too.

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